Whirlpool

Choose your favourite old iron and discuss.

Whirlpool has a limitation on the number of entries in a poll. If your selection doesn't fit or its family is not listed please select Other and create a post for your favourite old iron. I've mixed up the order of the poll just so you have to read every entry.

caleula writes...

Agreed. I used to use the second page of memory in the terminals to add features. It was previously thought to be hardware engineers use only.

At least our B6700 was still maintaining about 99.95% uptime when the new ICL gear was struggling at about 80%.

Ours was not 99.95% uptime as the B6700 had reliability problems. The line drivers that linked the processors to memory were at the very top of the cabinets and received pre-heated air for cooling. End result was massively discoloured, nearly charred black, printed circuit boards. The integrated circuits were Fairchild CTL which is similar to the much more common ECL, and they ran very hot. So the chips cooked and regularly failed.

Did your B6700 have the large incandescent lamp matrix?The jury seemed to be out on whether it stood for "Busy" as it increasingly lit up to form the letter "B" or whether it stood for "Burroughs". Both probably.

Yes. But the higher the processing load the less visible the 'B'. So 'B' for Burroughs. It could also display the time.

Big iron was inherently more interesting than these new-fangled PC's.

They don't make them like they used to....

pdp11 writes...

Choose your favourite old iron

I worked at the remote end mainly with Burroughs 6700 gear, but also ICL 2900. Then smaller Data General minis, NCR299/399 accounting machines, Wang WP [two types – IBM Selectric Golf Ball Head Printer + Tape Drive in a gullwing desk and Mowhawk Disk Pack + terminals and high speed printers], Olivetti WP with tape packs, Olivetti TC-808 Cash Registers hanging off Burroughs and ICL terminals, etc.

You name it, I did it. Plan, install, maintain, troubleshoot, cable, teach, program, liase, purchase, audit, ergonomics -the lot.

Would love to be in a time warp back in those days :)

Oh, and Leo was the mainframe in use when I first started.

They don't make them like they used to....

Sadly :(

Processor and peripheral hardware maintenance was PDP-11, LSI-11, VAX, B6700, very tiny amount of B5500, variety of micros, plus some wierd stuff. Lot of network, LAN and file server support.

Came in one Monday morning and copped a blast from a guy who was having some problem that I would need to address. Not a good move on his part as I didn't cause his problems and this just triggered BOFH mode. Stability of a system is always a higher priority so half the morning disappeared before I could spare the time to fix his minor problem.

Also used to be a feral programmer. Used to write programs during lunchtime for my co-workers as management wouldn't seek their input. When the powers that be decided to scrap the obsolete local system they discovered their section was dependent on my feral programs. Took them an extra 6 months before they could decommission.

pdp11 writes...

variety of micros, plus some wierd stuff. Lot of network, LAN and file server support.

Same here. Both in support and student evironments. Great way to learn how to idiot and hacker proof systems.

Also did my IBM and Compaq training back in the 1980's and still have my Compaq "carburettor tool".

My programming was born from a wish to do things a better way in the days of broadsheets for claims schedules. Progressed to check-digit verification programming. Can't remember which modulos I used but it was about 96% at picking up transposition and plain incorrect typing errors. I recall the NCR engineer removing the rear panel of the 299 and checking the backplane to confirm that the check-digit firmware card was installed. He didn't know off any other party that had used it and that spurred me on to greater challenges particularly alphanumeric check-digits.

can you add a " would'nt have a clue " button ?

Have distinct memories of hauling a PDP11/05 and TTY home in the mid '70's to do some programming over a long weekend. I think the machine had core memory as it was transported on a wheeled pallet. People gave me funny looks when taking it to the top floor of a block of units in West Ryde via the lift. The TTY cut paper tape, which then fed into the tape reader on the PDP.

Tektronix had this new you-beaut R7912 Transient Digitiser which hooked into the PDP to do FFT's, but the code wasn't terribly stable. It was also the early days of their Plot 10 Fortran library. Wow fun times.

Alison
PS. Remember being told that the power supply on the in-house PDP11/70 had enough grunt to enable it to be used for arc-welding the rack if it broke.

alisoncc writes...

Have distinct memories of hauling a PDP11/05 and TTY home in the mid '70's to do some programming over a long weekend.

You were keen!

Remember being told that the power supply on the in-house PDP11/70 had enough grunt to enable it to be used for arc-welding the rack if it broke

Know what you mean. The NCR399 I worked on was top of the line with triple cassette handlers. They gave it to me when I left and it took 6 men to push it across the carpet. Wouldn't fit through the firedoor so we had to partly strip it before getting it down to the basement. The PSU was 50 amp regulated and had 22 fans in it!

BTW, welcome. Nice to have some female input :)

My first play was with an IBM360 and punch cards. I guess that makes me old.

Nice nostalgia arousing thread. And VAX was such a leap forward comparing to PDP11 :)

Synaptic Cleft writes...

Nice nostalgia arousing thread. And VAX was such a leap forward comparing to PDP11 :)

I remember when at ANU we moved from PDP to Vax. Vax was SLOW by comparision.

I'd be happy working with TOPS10 or TOPS20 on PDP again, its a nice operating system.

alisoncc writes...

Have distinct memories of hauling a PDP11/05 and TTY home in the mid '70's to do some programming over a long weekend. I think the machine had core memory as it was transported on a wheeled pallet.

The computer desk that I'm using as I type in this message contains a PDP-11/10 with LPS-11 and TU60 DECassette. The PDP-11/05 was sold as the OEM version of a PDP-11/10 and was only sold with core memory. I've stuffed in a later generation of backplane (MUD) so I could run core and/or semiconductor memory. An ASR-33 teletype with papertape punch and reader would have been a typical terminal when they were released in the early 1970s. I've played with papertape, CAPS-11, RT11, RSX and supported an educational operating system.

PDP-11/70 racks were configured for multi-phase power but I've heard of them being wired for single phase.

pdp11 writes...

your favourite old iron LOL... from your list, VAX. Along with another here I started with an IBM 360 and punched cards.

But my real favorite of all time is still HP41CX "nano-iron".

caleula writes...

I recall the NCR engineer removing the rear panel of the 299 and checking the backplane to confirm that the check-digit firmware card was installed. He didn't know off any other party that had used it and that spurred me on to greater challenges particularly alphanumeric check-digits.

The early PDP-11s could offload this CPU intensive work onto the KG11-A. It was a peripheral card sitting in the backplane to calculate various CRCs. Still have one of those cards lost in the shed.

 iLuxo writes...

But my real favorite of all time is still HP41CX "nano-iron".

Not many calculators could boast synthetic instructions or being in orbit. A quote from Computers in Spaceflight: The NASA Experience

In the meantime, the astronauts themselves pioneered efforts to use small computers to add functions and back up the primary systems. Early flights used a Hewlett-Packard HP-41C programmable calculator to determine ground-station availability, as well as carry a limited version of the calculations for time-to-retrofire. Beginning with STS-9 in December, 1983, a Grid Systems Compass portable microcomputer with graphics capabilities was carried to display ground stations and to provide functions impractical on the primary computers. Mission Specialist Terry Hart, responsible for programming the HP-41Cs, said that placing the mission documentation on the computer was also being considered

lol great thread! I remember, i think a Burroughs (could be wrong, it was a big centre with lots of ibm, wang and digital(?) equipment, that I wanted to buy for pure nostalgia reasons, it was going for scrap – about $300 – new price was circa a million i think, when a millionaire was a seriously rich person.

Now i wish we bought it – would look so cool in the game s room in boring gull grey and 4 tape loops. ;)

(though the conversations and awe of those times of what the mainframes were capable of makes you appreciate the power in a laptop, and at the same time lament the lazy fat programming that is de rigeur today with almost limitless storage, memory and processing ability.)

pdp11 writes...

The PDP-11/05 was sold as the OEM version of a PDP-11/10 and was only sold with core memory. I've stuffed in a later generation of backplane (MUD) so I could run core and/or semiconductor memory

Still have a wire wrap tool and the wire for adding jumpers on the backplane, or patching it for different configurations. Haven't used it in a while though. Remember quoting for a 8kw memory upgrade on a PDP 11/34, we had an engineer go out and check the underfloor supports to make sure it could take the weight. I think it would have been MM11.

Alison
PS. pdp11, got a PDP peripherals handbook from 1973, PM me if you need to check any specs.

Also got to play with a stack of Interdata stuff in the very early '70's. So who got to play with Tektronix DVST vector graphics screens in darkened rooms?

PS. pdp11, got a PDP peripherals handbook from 1973, PM me if you need to check any specs.

Thanks for the offer. I have the same plus the various sets of PDP-11/10 manuals, circuit diagrams, papertape diagnostics, etc. Even bought up the last stocks of STC's fanfold papertape in this city so I wouldn't have to use the circular rolls.

pharmaboy writes...

I remember, i think a Burroughs (could be wrong, it was a big centre with lots of ibm, wang and digital(?) equipment, that I wanted to buy for pure nostalgia reasons, it was going for scrap – about $300 – new price was circa a million i think, when a millionaire was a seriously rich person.

I also have my regrets. Had the chance to acquire but couldn't take a PDP-11/20. All I have is the addon Fabri-Tek memory expansion.

Later, I had to pass on a VAX-11/782. Such is life.

pdp11 writes...

Even bought up the last stocks of STC's fanfold papertape in this city so I wouldn't have to use the circular rolls.

Don't know whether it's for the same use, but the standard NCR399/499 had an endless [circular] paper timing loop for the paper tractor feed's home position. The 399 I worked on had the "indestructible" mylar loop instead and I was doing a hexdump at about 8:00pm when twang went the mylar :( Oh well, core memory to the rescue. The hexdump could be run again later on.

I had learnt enough NEAT3 in 16 hours to patch the ex-programmers' [both of them] cheque drawing and balancing program. Those triple cassette handlers with the flip-tops were in constant use as the operators swapped in and out the program suite which was written on 8 cassettes. HO had asked me if I could patch their 399 program as I had total control of the 299 whereas previously the 399 was forbidden ground due to the extensive audit trails required of a complicated cheque drawing program.

Well, the program was in daily use for drawing cheques and then another 90 minutes or so to run the daily output tally sheets which were kept in the accounting books. So I was stuck with twilight hours for my learning/program amendment efforts. Finally sent HO the patches and asked them to marry my amendments with their patches. "We don't have any patches" was their reply. A month or so later a rather sheepish request and their patches finally came through. They admitted they had no idea how to patch the program due to its complication and being spread over an 8 cassette suite.

Again I sat down and married both sets of patches and forwarded an entire new suite of cassettes together with notes on how to maintain the program in future. The manager received a memorandum later on thanking me for my efforts and he duly noted my assistance rendered and passed me a copy. As someone said later on it made a nice unsolicited reference to go with similar ones I had received for other efforts.

About a year later I was the first retrenched and the irony was that they had by then scrapped the 399 which they gave me and I realised that maybe my final pay cheque was drawn using a backup cheque drawing program I had written on the 299 :(

I ticked the IBM 700 series box. I used to work on IBM hardware for a while. I got out of that in the late 1970s. I can recall that Sydney Uni Basser lab had an IBM 7040 and the Weapons Research Establishment (aka WRE) in Adelaide had a 7090. IIRC it had an IBM 1400 series as the I/O controller. I better not talk about that one (WRE) too much or the spooks will be coming to get me for disclosing secrets (40 years later lol). I also worked on the IBM 360s and 370s and a lot of others whose numbers escape me. There was the OCR device that the bakers Gartrell White had. It was long. I used to be surprised that the documents ever reached the other end. I never worked on the 4300 series. I got out just as they arrived.

Bob D writes...

I can recall that Sydney Uni Basser lab had an IBM 7040 and the Weapons Research Establishment (aka WRE) in Adelaide had a 7090.

Melbourne University also had an IBM 7040. I used to have one of the modules from an IBM 704. eBayed it with the 704 'Manual of Operation' some time back. Now only have a couple of photos.

Any one know of the CRAM devices on NCR Century machines ? This was before disc, and the CRAM (Card Random Access Memory (?)) had magnetic strips about 3 inches wide and a foot long with notches cut in the top to unquely identify each card. When a card was called for it would be dropped down from the stack of cards, wizz around a drum and hopefully end up back in the stack. They were never used in production at the bank I was at in London – from time to time the engineers (resident on site) would do some work with them, but this generally resulted in the cards going everywhere.
And cheque sorters and 8 tape sorts and paper tape and and ...

 iLuxo writes...

But my real favorite of all time is still HP41CX "nano-iron".

I still have one and it still works (well it did when I had batteries for it – i think they are type N – not that easy to get hold of).

Sadly, I lost one of the manuals.

I have maths and circuits analysis packages for it as well.

 iLuxo writes...

But my real favorite of all time is still HP41CX "nano-iron".

Looked at a picture of the HP41CX and it appears to be similar vintage to my HP80 financial model. When the battery pack died I made my own which worked fine for years. Now use it purely on the AC charger as I like RPN and the financial functions beat slide-rules and 7-figure logs which I finally managed to get my hands on. Still have all the manuals, etc.

I remember my late Dad's face when I bought it. He was an accountant and still showed me a few tricks.

Maveri writes...

Sadly, I lost one of the manuals.

Re: Missing HP-41 Manuals

You can buy a set of two DVDs or 18 CDs of scanned HP calculator manuals and other related documents from the HP Museum.

Bluebottle writes...

Any one know of the CRAM devices on NCR Century machines ? This was before disc, and the CRAM (Card Random Access Memory (?)) had magnetic strips about 3 inches wide and a foot long with notches cut in the top to unquely identify each card.

I worked at NCR before IBM and yes I recall the names but not much more than that. They also had the CRAM on the 315 system IIRC. That would be circa 1965 I think.

Actually yes it was a 315, now you mention it. RMC version – Rod Memory Computer ??
And yes, around 65 66 ish.

caleula writes...

as I like RPN

Oh no – this could start a debate!

I LOVE RPN – it's just so dam good.

The old HP's also had the great old keys which they have abandoned sadly.

I and another friend had HP calcs. in school many years ago and we used to love RPN when it came to solving maths problems. You can start were you want in an equation rather than attempt to work from left to right.

I think RPN is better for teaching maths than some of the so called teaching calculators that are around.

There's some heated debate in WP over RPN and the HP keys...

Anyhow – back on topic

I still work on Vax's actually (and Alpha's too).

The OpenVMS OS is a good OS IMO and has stood the test of time for over 20 years.

It's still being enhanced even today and there's a fair amount of opensource stuff being ported to it as well (yes, it can be a bit slower getting it ported but the porting time is getting smaller and smaller as HP enhance the OS to cater for more unix type functions).

I like the unofficial statement for OpenVMS.

"For when failure isn't an option"

I was looking at two of our systems a few days ago and I happen to notice that they had uptimes of 321 days. That's not particularly fantastic for OpenVMS by any means (there was a cluster that was up for over 10 years somewhere).

The first Vax I used was an 11/785. I then got a taste of an 8600 and a Vax 750. The 750 was a joke – sooooo slow. that thing was frustrating.

The funniest old piece of hardware was the RP07 disk drive. It was the size of a washing machine (and it used to get called that too). When we performed an image backup, you had to go into the computer room every 10 mins and lean on the disk drive to slowly walk it back to it's place as it would move and waltz it's way across the computer room floor. It only did it when you performed a full image backup because the backup would backup up sector by sector across the disk and cause the disk drive to resonate – hence the 'walking' it did.

For those interested, here's a link to the service manual for the old disk drive.

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/disc/rp07/ER-ORP07-SV_RP07_ServiceMan_Oct80.pdf

I used to use an old ICL as well (can't remember the model) but from memory it had like 16K of ram! and ran the accounting system for a small city of 100K.

While not myself but someone I worked with about 15 years ago (who has since died) worked on one of the first computers in Australia. He was a technician looking after the magnetic core storage. Shame I never really drilled him for what it was like etc. I just remember him telling me how fantastic computers today were compared to many years ago. He was never someone to grizzle about anything – yet alone being displaced by more recent technology.

The Tektronix 31 wasn't terribly portable, but it was a pretty powerful calculator for it's time. Teamed up with the TMS 500 test equipment modules, it enabled some of the earliest attempts at automated equipment monitoring.

As an ex-Tek'y and ex-DEC'y always used to refer to the rest as IBM and the Bunch. IBM being the Itsy Bitsy Machine Company and the Bunch? Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data and Honeywell.

Also remember the proposed merger between Honeywell and Fairchild, with the new company being "Fairwell Honeychild".

Alison

Maveri writes...

this could start a debate!

... we used to love RPN when it came to solving maths problems. You can start were you want in an equation rather than attempt to work from left to right.

Funny, I never thought of it as working away left to right, rather those numerals in the damn parenthesis brackets which had to be solved first. Yep, the 4 stacks and RPN enable you to just enter numbers, SAVE [for the HP80] and punch in the sign last. Ah, sheer bliss :}

Can't share your enthusiasm with DEC's OS as the small VAX's we inherited could only cope with two Cobol compiles simultaneously. We threw the dual [mini?] VAX's out and installed a 486 with 64Kb of RAM and Novell Netware which coped with 50 Cobol compiles immediately.

Thanks for the RP07 PDF link though. I've saved it for a quiet read later on. My DEC Rainbow had twin, back-to-back, 400K floppy drives with SS QD 96tpi floppies which blew the IBM 160K away. T'was a nice PC ahead of its time ergonomically. Only weak link was the wavering monitor which they told me wasn't a problem. I had DEC agree to give me a refund of the monitor price to go buy my own. Not easy as I had to contrive a socket for the keyboard to plug into the rear of the monitor. Anyway, 9 months later a tech with a Rev D circuit board fronted up and plugged it in. "There, the problems fixed". Interesting as I had persisted about the non-existent problem from day one. Turned out I was one of two people worldwide who had complained of the problem.

Then there was the WordPerfect 3.0 on the DEC Rainbow problem. ComputerLand didn't acknowledge it, but when I later worked for them I discovered that the two products were incompatible :)

I used to do heaps with 16K on the NCR299. Something like 11 instructions per line too. Code was tight and well written. Didn't think much of the ICL2900 gear though.

alisoncc writes...

always used to refer to the rest as IBM and the Bunch. IBM being the Itsy Bitsy Machine Company and the Bunch? Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data and Honeywell.

Love that one. Never worked with IBM or Univac gear. Burroughs and NCR though. I was always asked about IBM experience when job-hunting and my stock reply was that I couldn't expect any company I worked for to supply a particular brand of machine to suit me. Rather, I got the utmost out of whatever gear they already had. That usually shut them up.

The "Fairwell Honeychild" comment's a beauty. Only Fairchild gear I had were some early IC's. They used to make the early music synthesisers and I have a car alarm module they also used to make before they got into that field. Maybe it wasn't the same Fairchild, Eastern Suburbs direction from memory.

As someone who worked for DEC for 14 years I had to pick either the PDP11 or VAX options. I opted for VAX. It was just an amazing architecture for its time and coupled with the VMS operating system it was just rock solid .... and no doubt still is at some places that are still using them.

Ah the good old days. I got to visit a number of DEC facilities around the world and enjoyed every minute of working for them. I departed when Compaq came along and I am glad I did as the place was never the same again.

/me is sad now ........

dw1562 writes...

coupled with the VMS operating system it was just rock solid

More of an RSX-11M person myself. Never got into RSTS/E. That's "Rat-shit Software for the Technically Stupid/ Extended".

DEC were still at Willoughby Rd with Max as the boss, when I joined them. Then we moved to the North Tower at Chatswood Plaza. Attended my first DECUS at the Sydney Hilton in July 1980. Still use the ultra-smart A4 notepad holder from the event.

The DEC Rainbow was a neat machine, running both CPM and DOS, but not both at the same time. Remember trialling Windows 2.1 on it. Did a Micro-VMS course in the US run by Dave Cutler, well before Bill Gates stole him for Windows NT.

Alison

dw1562 writes...

I departed when Compaq came along and I am glad I did as the place was never the same again.

Our DEC techie told me that Compaq wanted DEC's support structure and that he would be walking when the day came about.

/forum-replies.cfm?t=1154765&ux=27476

alisoncc writes...

Then we moved to the North Tower at Chatswood Plaza.

Refer to /forum-replies.cfm?t=1154765&p=27 which spawned this one, for my comments, the 6th post down.

The DEC Rainbow was a neat machine, running both CPM and DOS, but not both at the same time.

Both 8088 and 8086 wasn't it?

The "birdcage" tray at the rear which was released with three thumbscrews and the use of a ballpoint pen to release the modules? You didn't even require the pen.

I ran both OS's and missed the PIP command in CPM when I switched to DOS. Threw out my entire Technical Reference Manual set, which cost me $300, only last year. They even had the BIOS code in them. Still have heaps of DEC Magazine though to relive the memories :)

Then there were the other variants in the line too. One for WP and the Pro?

alisoncc writes...

DEC were still at Willoughby Rd with Max as the boss, when I joined them. Then we moved to the North Tower at Chatswood Plaza.

I never worked at Chatswood although I got up there a bit. I started my career at DEC as the first local Service Centre engineer out at the Roseberry office in early 1985. We then moved in with the repair centre at Mars Rd Lane Cove. I then became part of the PC business unit and we briefly setup camp in Mowbray Rd but ultimately moved back to Mars Rd. I left at the end of 1998.

The DEC Rainbow was a neat machine, running both CPM and DOS, but not both at the same time.

Yes it was a good machine but never marketed properly ... a common problem for DEC.

Attended my first DECUS at the Sydney Hilton in July 1980.

I never did get to a DECUS event but I did go to DECWorld in Canberra.

Max as the boss

He was in our local newspaper a few months ago with a story about his museum. That brought back find memories just as this thread has. I met Max a number of times but never really "knew" him as such. I'm sure he probably has one of every bit of DEC kit that will be mentioned in this thread.

Bluebottle writes...

Any one know of the CRAM devices on NCR Century machines ?

I sure do remember watching a CRAM in operation. It was sort-of in the same category as the IBM 2321 Data Cell Drive (aka "noodle snatcher" or "noodle picker").

Maveri writes...

The 750 was a joke – sooooo slow. that thing was frustrating.

For those unfamiliar with a VAX-11/750, it's processing speed on benchmarks was on a par with a Intel 386SX with a co-processor. Had better I/O but the processor weighed just under 200Kg. Therefore it could cause compression cracks in the plaster walls of old farm houses as it sank towards the centre of the earth.